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Post by cypherwulfe on Sept 5, 2006 13:31:01 GMT -5
I was curious if anyone has taken Pooka, and levelled only 1 area with her, and avoiding the rest.
Specifically, I want to know what your stats would be, if all you ever did was fight melee, magic, and range.
what is the highest possible stat count you can get.
I am curious because I would like to be able to wear the lvl 30 Armor, but dont know if it is possible in SP.
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Post by Liantedan on Sept 5, 2006 15:17:50 GMT -5
Easy to answer that question, from a theoretical point of view. Knight, UberLevel 30 : @ Confidence level 40 STR 34.5 DEX 25 INT 12.7 @ Precision level 40 STR 27 DEX 32.5 INT 12.7 @ Talent level 40 STR 27 DEX 25 INT 32.5 @ Mundane level 40 STR 21 DEX 19 INT 19 Keep in mind this is purely theoretically. edit : Before you ask, no I did not actually build these characters. But because the actual levelling process is still the same as in regular Dungeon Siege, with some calculations on the experience distribution and such, these are the results. Hence, this is a theoretical calculations of how the character would look on the condition that not a single point of experience was alotted in another skill.
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Post by ghastley on Sept 7, 2006 21:35:47 GMT -5
The calculation leaves out the issue of whether you attain that level of Confidence, for example.
It appears that you can get to any levels of Mundane and Talent by endless foraging, but Confidence requires enemies, (and Precision probably does too). You may run out of things to whack on before you get the levels you want.
Which possibly means that your best strategy for attaining high levels of strength in SP is to avoid killing anything by magic, and use only melee weapons, never ranged. Kills by your comanions add to Confidence so don't worry about them.
You would not have to avoid using talent or mundane for foraging, crafting etc. as that does not diminish the sword fodder for your confidence building. Since they do add (more slowly) to strength, you would want to add that boost as well.
But can you make all the kills that way? Level 42 black knights in groups aren't easy to go toe-to-toe with, and live.
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Post by Artamos on Sept 7, 2006 23:13:53 GMT -5
You could also let a few of them get up...(enemies)..They do heal pretty quickly and if you are set on foraging or something you can parry them until they are strong enough to battle again.. If I want to raise confidence I fight the knights unarmed for a while.. If I need inteligence I will dart them for a while.. My talent is in my staff.. If I ever figure out the "mundane weapon" I will have another option.. Precision has never been a factor for my three attempts at this game.. Strength just seems to take care of itself.. ..
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Post by Liantedan on Sept 8, 2006 4:38:20 GMT -5
There still are pells, if you are desperate. And if you use a weapon with VL damage, say, for example, the lanista items, the chances of you killing a foe are a lot smaller. Also putting your attack behavior to speed reduces the chance of hard hits and criticals. However, VL damage weapons also have poor defence, this in combination with not crafting any armor and relying on what you can buy, leaves you with a very, very low defence. So in order to be able to survive your enemies, you'd be always fighting enemies several levels lower than yourself. Preferably enemies with shields, as they stay alive longer than those without. Never kill them when they fall unconcious. Let them get up while you walk away from them towards another enemy. By switching between two or three of them, you can get in a loop that will give you ample experience at a minimal risk of getting yourself killed. On the condition you plan everything adequately, that is. Also, you will never be able to actually finish the SP game this way. Because you simply won't survive arrows or spells from the last-row Black Bishops. you might be able to survive one sole Black Knight, for a while, but without decent equipment (including weapons) you simply can't beat them. Thus, without some Mundane stats, you can't beat the game. Even if you'd try to rely on the Arma Igneus (as when you reached max level you can't gain any experience so it doesn't matter wether or not you use it) you won't be able to hit a thing, because you lack precision. Even worse, you lack arrows. It is impossible for you to get arrows, other than the ones you might happen to find in the White homerows. Without Mundane and Bowyer, you can't craft them, and without Talent you can't even make the spell to conjure them. Attempts at this in the SP game will be a total waste. Also, when you reach the maximum level during the SP game, you cannot export that character to MP. This means you cannot do anything with the character ever again, other then loading a SP savegame and looking at it. It would be a total waste. However, in a MP game with some helpful friends you should be fully capable of building such a character, with some serious planning not to accidentally get even one point of experience into another stat. By doing this, you would be able to get the most lethal melee character in the game (with the exception of the Kings themselves), as your character will be nearly equal in stats to the strongest Black Knight, and you'd have the brain of a human player to back it up. On the other side, if someone casts Hold Creature on you, and stacks a few casts of Firebolt, you'd die without having a chance to resist. Conclusion: Mageworld is build for balanced characters, not specialists. But by building specialists in a team of players, all built mainly around a different skill, you result into a balanced team, and thus a profitable MP gameplay.
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Post by Artamos on Sept 8, 2006 6:39:10 GMT -5
Astute observations indeed..
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Post by Kilarin on Sept 8, 2006 7:17:05 GMT -5
But precision is IMPORTANT, because raising precision raises dex which increases your damage with ANY weapon. In This SiegeNetwork post I disscussed why "Rune Foraging" was one of the best spells in the game because you can use it to increase precision! Well, indirectly... All Hail the mighty "Summon Rock!"
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Post by cypherwulfe on Sept 8, 2006 8:27:27 GMT -5
I think everyone has some good points. However, my main question, which I will admit was somewhat clouded in my post, was whether or not one could actually wear the best knights armor in the single player game.
you need a STR of 30 to put it on. is that even attainable in single player game? I am guessing you would have to get your confidence up fairly high, in order to get the str gains from using it, but woudl you also not have to get some points in the other skills?
What do you think would be the best plan to be able to get a 30 in Str?
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Post by Liantedan on Sept 8, 2006 10:01:41 GMT -5
Let's see. In SP you get confidence and mundane early on from just learning skills and visiting the Lanista's. So if we assume you keep on building Mundane first up to level 18 (for crafting purposes) while slowly building Confidence to level 20. At this point you'd have about 19 Strength. Let's go for magic now, because it's always handy to have. For this example, say we build up Talent to level 18 too. Then we now have 20 Strength. From now on, we no longer use Mundane. We have crafted our best gear and we enter the battle. We use our Talent a little bit to root or slow some enemies, while we bash on them with whatever melee weapon strikes our fancy. So Talent goes up 2 points while our confidence rises another 10 points. Now we have 26 strenght. We keep on going. By the time our Confidence reaches to level 36, our Talent is at level 22. Our strenght finally reached the longed for 30. We would now have reached an UberLevel of 26, close to 27.
Of course, our Intelligence would be only 14.6, which is quite low if you intend to cast spells. Our Dexterity is also quite low at 22.75, this means we are not doing as much damage as we would expect.
In short: It is possible.
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Post by jackson on Nov 3, 2008 19:49:25 GMT -5
Hi I'm a noob if it comes to theory craft. I do not understand the meaning of notions like uberlevel and max level. But reading through this thread I have a bad feeling. Currently Pooka's stats are She is atm in the 6th row (KB6 to be precise) tryng to reach 30 str by kicking shielded black knights. But it's slooow going. Does she attempt the impossible? Thanks for your help. Jackson
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Post by Liantedan on Nov 4, 2008 9:27:52 GMT -5
Looks like you're somewhere around uberlevel 26, then. It's been a long time since I calculated these things, so please don't take what I'm saying now for granted, as I may be very wrong. I think you need another 40k to 60k experience in STR to get it to level 30. That means you'll have to gain at least 54k more experience ( score ) from Confidence. Probably 80k or more, though. Since around 500k your character will be maxed out, and cannot gain any more experience, I believe it is possible for you to do it. You need no more than an additional 120k xp from Confidence, to get your STR to 30. Though be warned, if you do max our your character in SP, it will be broken when you export it to MP. So if you want to keep playing your character in multiplayer games, do NOT get anywhere near 500k score. I suggest you play the game, and enjoy it. After completing the game, you can export your char to MP, and finish levelling her there. Or, do as I did, and use your own experience of building the character in SP, for building a better one in MP.
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Post by jackson on Nov 4, 2008 13:36:36 GMT -5
Thanks for the info, Liantedan.
Could you or anyone provide a link to more info about level calculation? I'm curious how ''uberlevel'' is defined and what impact it has to the scaling (gray bars).
Pooka did hit str 27 at score 323K and is now at 338K but str has only increased just under 30%. Guess it will be tight since she has to spend some xp on food to feed Ahu, Mantri and herself (luckily Robbie doesn't need food in SP).
Jackson
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Post by jackson on Nov 4, 2008 15:12:33 GMT -5
Just an update: A careful estimate of the progress bar suggests about 64k confident xp from strength 27 to 28. If it takes 64k for each of the next two levels then this would mean a score beyond 500k is necessary. Botch !! Seems as if I have spent too much on talent I will use this savegame to increase my talent to 34 to get the top end mage staff. However, to reach strength 30 I will reload an earlier savegame and then focus on confidence only. Jackson
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Post by Liantedan on Nov 5, 2008 6:57:00 GMT -5
In short, your character has an uberlevel, and the other, visible, levels. It is how the Dungeon Siege engine is set up to work.
If you have gained 10 levels in melee, and one in ranged, your uberlevel is not 11. Why ? Well, your uberlevel is the grand total of xp your character has earned. To get 10 levels in melee, you need 17100 xp, in melee. To get 1 level in ranged, you need 70 xp in ranged. So in total, you have 17170 xp, and not the 22000 xp you'd need to be level 11.
How much your STR, DEX and INT increase when you level, is based on your uberlevel. So gaining 1 level in ranged after having gained 10 levels on melee, will not budge your DEX. After all, it is only 70 xp compared to 17100 xp. If you had gained the 1 ranged level before you started melee'ing, you actually would have seen a difference in stats, because you'd have given DEX a boost at the start.
If you pm me your email address, I could send you a spreadsheet I made a few years ago based on someone else's spreadsheet, that may make it easier for you to understand how it works. I still use that spreadsheet every time I make a new MP character in Mw, because with it I can experiment on how I should build my character in MP to achieve best results in primary ( STR, DEX, INT ) and secondary ( C, P, T, M ) stats.
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Post by jackson on Nov 5, 2008 12:10:52 GMT -5
Thanks, Liantedan. PM sent.
Jackson
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