mageworld, precisions effect on spell casting

[Kilarin]

Ok, so I finally got Mageworld working under linux. <Huzzah!>
But now I'm finding I have forgotten a lot of important strategy elements. And I'm having trouble finding them again searching the various forums.

Questions:
1: At what Talent levels does the wizard staff upgrade?
2: Does Precision/Dexterity effect your accuracy with spells? Particularly Magic Dart?
3: What controls the "fizzle" chance? Talent vs spell difficulty I assume? I'm getting a LOT of fizzles with magic dart. Like 2 or 3 fizzled for each successful cast.

Thanks!

[numbrain]

1)Im pretty sure you get a new staff summoned each 10 levels of talant.
2)i would think so.
3)i think you assume right.

[Liantedan]

1) I second that. Though starting from level 22, I think.
2) Dexterity mostly defines the damage, Precision the chance to hit, I believe.
Higher Dex means you will, on average, roll higher within the bounds of the stated damage. ( So closer to 7 than to 1, on a 1-7 dmg weapon/Spell, for example. ) It probably adds to chance to hit to a lesser extent too, but my personal experience is that characters with high Dex mostly just hit harder, rather than more often. Granted, I don't have played many low-Dex high-level chars to properly compare.
I'm not entirely sure Precision will increase the chance to hit of Spells, though.
3) I think the char's Intelligence plays a role too, maybe even more than Talent. Maybe even in relation to your opponent's Int rating on top of the Spell's level. Talent amplifies the raw damage potential of the Spell ( it multiplies the number of projectiles per cast ), so it would make sense if Int defined the fizzles instead.
To my personal experience, Magic Dart works best at point blanc, even for my Bishop who significantly favours Magic ( lvl 42 Talent, if my memory serves me right ).
I do notice more fizzles from chars with significantly lower Int and only slightly lower Talent. That also just might be the rnd playing tricks on me, though. I haven't actually intentionally set out to test this.

[Kilarin]

Thanks for the advice folks!
It appears that Liantedan is right on the staff, I just summoned it at 20 and there was no change.


The reason I'm curious about dex and precision is that I'm considering building a somewhat imbalanced character. I've been through Mageworld several times now, and I know that my preferred style is to use NOTHING but magic through the entire SP campaign. So I am curious as to how seriously affected my character will be if I build nothing but talent, and enough mundane to build the cool stuff I want.

Talent has the MOST favorable stats chart at str 50%, dex 50%, int 75%. So my abilities really should end up with decent scores. My confidence and precision are going to be awfully low though. If that doesn't really effect spell casting, then it won't have much effect on my playing.

Right now I'm at:
Str 17, Dex 14, Int 16 (dex is just a HAIR away from 15)
Conf 11, Prec 10, Tal 20, Mund 13.

I've got to get that mundane up to 18 eventually, but I'm putting it off to help improve my ability growth. (since mundane grows at 30%/30%/30%). I don't know if I can put it off much longer though, I'd like to build several things that require a higher mundane.

According to the Mageworld Help file:

Confidence controls the character's ability to hit in Melee combat and their ability to not flinch when injured.
Precision controls the character's ability to hit with Bows and Thrown weapons

Which implies to me that Precision is probably going to be pretty unimportant to my character, and the main loss in having a low confidence will be more flinching (which I do believe is causing me to take more damage).

Anyway, we shall see. This is NOT the way Xaa recommends to build a character...

[Liantedan]

Jan 2, 2011 0:52:48 GMT -5 Kilarin said:

...the main loss in having a low confidence will be more flinching (which I do believe is causing me to take more damage).

I don't think it has much to do with the amount of damage you take, but rather the resetting of the combat animation.
If you have low Confidence, you will get interrupted almost each and every time you get hit, even if you don't actually take damage. With high Confidence, you even have a chance to fully ignore a blow that hurt for half your health, and calmly land your own attack.
This is true for Melee. It might also be a factor for interrupts on Spells, but I'm not sure. For Spells, it might also use the "Precision Under Fire" stat ( which is the full name of what is noted as "Precision" ), I don't know.

Anyway, we shall see. This is NOT the way Xaa recommends to build a character...

Agreed, but non-advised builds CAN be fun, if you know what you are doing. Especially in MultiPlayer. My Pure Melee char ( literally 0 xp in anything other than Melee ) springs to mind. Was very hard to level up, but was well worth it. ( Disclaimer: This is a char for MP use only. This build is impossible in SP. )
A char who's focused on Talent will do very well in Mageworld, whether it's SP or MP. I'm sure you'll find it fun to play.

Besides, with the right Spells at your disposal, you still have the option to properly Melee anyway.

[grobblewobble]

Now I feel dumb for posting a new post instead of just replying here.

I have a very similar build and it is working perfectly, so far. I really like it.

No idea about the questions you asked, I'd like to know too. However, if you spend uberlevels on precision instead of talent, you trade about 3 int for 1 dex. And with a staff that means 6 mana.. you could almost weave a full extra lightning bolt for it. I am positive that 1 dex isn't worth as much as that for us mage style players.

Kilarin, do you manage to weave Magic Dart spells? I am not able to do it, the spell seems to be too fast.. am I doing it wrong?

Also, could you please drop me a hint on the best recipe for which you need 18 mundane? As I said in the other post, I didn't find any usefull recipe so far that requires high mundane (I am still wearing the items that I crafted at 12 mundane, and I am not even sure I needed 12 mundane for them).

EDIT: deleted my other post because it was redundant.

[Kilarin]

do you manage to weave Magic Dart spells?

nah, you can't weave Magic Dart. But it's so fast that, AS LONG AS YOU DON'T FIZZLE, you don't need to weave it. Just fire them off as quickly as you can and the enemy will not even get a chance to hit back.

could you please drop me a hint on the best recipe for which you need 18 mundane?

I've been playing hyperborea recently. Haven't been in Mageworld in a while. I'll have to pull up my notes when I get home and I can give you some hints. That is, assuming you don't want full spoilers, because in that case all of the recipes are in the 3.0 help file.

[grobblewobble]

I'm just curious about which item or items you want high mundane for, not the recipe to make them.

I ask because I made all of my current equipment when my mundane was still at 12 (studded enchanted boots and gloves, a knight oriented helm and armor). I haven't managed to find an upgrade for any of them, even with mundane now at 17. I kept my mundane low for a very long time. So I'm just wondering if the higher mundane will pay off.

With the higher mundane I did craft some advanced armors, but two of them have requirements that this Pooka will never meet and for another one I don't really see a practical use.

Anyway, my question is: what is your favourite item that requires high mundane? Not asking how to make it, and not asking for spoilers either so just a hint would be great.

[Kilarin]

well, I went looking through my lists, and darned if I can figure out what I thought I needed an 18 mundane for. The Kite Pattern is the only thing you have to have 18 for. It looks like you can make everything else for SP at 16, its just DARNED difficult.

I like the Superior Knights Helmet, Enchanted Chainmail gloves and Enchanted Chainmail boots. But really, I just like to be able to make EVERYTHING in the game. It's too bad I usually have to leave out at least one skill.

[grobblewobble]

Almost finished the game now, only need to solve the displacer puzzle and kill the white king.

My conclusion is that you lose very little if you leave mundane at 10. This has the following consequences:

- Chain boots & gloves are replaced with superior studded versions. You lose a little bit of armor, but gain bonuses to stealth, lockpicking and backstabbing. Moreover, as long as you keep magic armor up your armor is already at 20 / 19 with the leather items.

- No superior helmet. However, it requires 25 strength. If you invest nearly all of your uberlevel in talent, as we do, that implies you need to be about level 26 (36 talent). I never got that far, not even close. After defeating the black king I had 28 talent, with 22 strength and 40 mana (42 boosted). And the last rows were easy at that level. I did skip most of the cities, though, with the exception of Kali because she is too evil to live.

- No soul gem because you can't repair bridges. That is the only real drawback, in my opinion. But is it worth 8 points of mundane? I say, only if it is your first playthrough and you need it to unlock characters. Otherwise, if you can afford to waste it on the robot, you don't need it at all.

[Kilarin]

I think the main reason I like building up some mundane is that I just get a kick out of crafting things.

[grobblewobble]

Jan 2, 2011 14:03:27 GMT -5 Liantedan said:

Agreed, but non-advised builds CAN be fun, if you know what you are doing. Especially in MultiPlayer. My Pure Melee char ( literally 0 xp in anything other than Melee ) springs to mind. Was very hard to level up, but was well worth it.

So you tried a melee only character? I just started a black knight and have some questions for you. What kind of character is it and which weapon combinations work best? The combat system is complicated and I'm experimenting a bit.. I wonder which shield is best against arrows: the kite shield or the magnetic targ?

By the way, for me the levelling is going ok so far.. not sure if it's harder than with other characters. Practice sword + enchanted buckler on ice bears yields lots of safe xp, for example.

[Kilarin]

I haven't tried a mele only character yet. I like MAGIC...

[grobblewobble]

Hehe, me too. Just started a second SP game. I considered going all archery this time.. but I can't do it. Magic is just too awesome, especially when you are white.

The black knight I'm running is not really pure melee, either. Having support spells is always good, no matter your "class". The black knights Pooka met were helpless against Hold Creature because they never bothered learning any magic.. that won't happen to this one.

[Liantedan]

Jan 9, 2012 6:57:22 GMT -5 grobblewobble said:

Jan 2, 2011 14:03:27 GMT -5 Liantedan said:

Agreed, but non-advised builds CAN be fun, if you know what you are doing. Especially in MultiPlayer. My Pure Melee char ( literally 0 xp in anything other than Melee ) springs to mind. Was very hard to level up, but was well worth it.

So you tried a melee only character? I just started a black knight and have some questions for you. What kind of character is it and which weapon combinations work best? The combat system is complicated and I'm experimenting a bit.. I wonder which shield is best against arrows: the kite shield or the magnetic targ?

By the way, for me the levelling is going ok so far.. not sure if it's harder than with other characters. Practice sword + enchanted buckler on ice bears yields lots of safe xp, for example.

There are a few screenshots of that character in the screenshot thread.
You should be able to piece out her equipment by looks, I think.
It's impossible to realise this build in SP, so I doubt it will be of much use, though.