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Post by Artamos on Dec 14, 2006 19:51:01 GMT -5
I was a late comer to Xaa's works as I was to Dungeon siege.
I played a host of maps and mods and wondered what the heck LoH was.
I was engrossed with reading through the "My Little Pony" thread and what it was all about on another forum and decided to try LoH just before Mageworld was completed..
I kind of hacked and slashed my way through LoH with the help of information on the other site.. needless to say I was intrigued..
Now that I have gone through the trials and tribulations of Mageworld I find myself somewhat asea and feeling like I have lost a friend. I decided to revisit LoH.
I have started LoH on hard mode and I am finding the patience and techniques that I have learned from playing Mageworld are making this another wonderful experience..
Please bear in mind that I am a sixty year old male but no tech savvy dummy when I make these following comments:
Xaa has proven once again that sometimes the student can exceed the teacher. (Gas Powered Games reference.)
I am seeing the differences and the learning curve between LoH and Mageworld and how they were developed by a talented, thinking individual.
My hat is once again doffed to you Xaa..
While I was waiting for Mageworld 3.0 to be distributed and after my OS meltdown (see other threads) I started to play another great, full conversion, from the Ultima V team.
I would highly recommend this work as a DS conversion but it is a straight conversion of some one else's story line and ideas using the DS engine whereas LoH and Mageworld have original story lines and in all fairness to Xaa push the DS engine to it's limits..
I might point out at this juncture that Ultima V had a somewhat large crew of talented people as opposed to an individual who preferred to work alone (the sign of an artist).
Alas I am rambling.. Just taking a break from battling my way out of the hole and enjoying the work...
Looking foward to an MP game down the line with a few trusted friends, starting from scratch and exploring together..
Artamos:
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Post by Kilarin on Dec 15, 2006 15:31:18 GMT -5
It's amazing how well hyperboria stands the test of time, isn't it. It beats the original DS on just about every level. Fun play, great environment, and fascinating story.
Oh, and Ultima V is ALSO an incredible achievement. Up until it came out, there was not a single SUCCESSFUL team effort at making a MOD for DS that I can think of. The Ultima team did an amazing job. The world is ENORMOUS and complex. the Ultima team finally showed what could be done if you could get that many people organized and keep them working. Of course, it helps that they had professional game designers in charge and a basic plot to start with.
But I agree with you that their achievement in no way reduces the wonder of Xaa's work. It actually increases it in my mind. Look at the BEST sieglets for DS, and you see three. One completed by a huge team, and two done by a single man. That is amazing.
I would kind of like to extend that list to four great sieglets. I really enjoyed "Chronicles Prelude: Goblin Warrens" by snowfox, but its so obviously just a prelude. It would have been fantastic if he had continued with it.
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Post by Xaa on Dec 15, 2006 22:24:44 GMT -5
Oh, and Ultima V is ALSO an incredible achievement. Up until it came out, there was not a single SUCCESSFUL team effort at making a MOD for DS that I can think of. Well, Team Elemental did manage to finish their work, as well, though it's no longer available. The largest complaints I heard about TE's finished work was it was too short. They bragged about having (if I recall correctly) thirty-six hours of gameplay - unfortunately, most people completed the main adventure in less than six hours, and were left scratching their heads as to what all the fuss was about. Other teams, however, simply never finished their work (Shadows of Winter comes to mind), or what they ended up with was shoddy, at best. Though it was very easy to lay the blame on the DS system, the simple fact is what I said at the beginning - you don't start with grand dreams and three dozen team members who are scattered all over the planet and end up with a commercial-quality product. It just doesn't happen. You have to start small, exploring what the engine is capable of doing, and build around this, slowly increasing what you have. LoH was built like that, as was Mageworld. Thank you. ;D |
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Post by Liantedan on Dec 16, 2006 4:45:05 GMT -5
I concur on all points above. Although, Xaa, I don't think The Elemental was ever finished. The most recent release I'm aware of, is "release 3 build 2" (Alpha). And the readme's third and fourth sentences are "Please be aware this is a partial release. It does not represent the envisioned final content of the game". Last I talked to them on SN, I was told that most of the developpers didn't even know what they were doing, because ither people had to put together what was done. I ended up with weird items made by one man who was told to make them, but the effects did't exist because the guy who had to code that didn't finish that part of the code yet, if it was even possible at all. So, yeah, as far as I know the only "finished" big Siegelets are LoH, Mw, Ultima, CoL and Chronicles. The latter being only the first chapter of the book, so it isn't even close to being as big as the other 3. DSAbstraction is on its way to completion, so it might get added to the list. Ultima has been done by a lot of people, and by professionals. Also, I haven't really managed to enjoy playing it, because of everytime I dare to hit QuickSave, I have to sit and wait for 4 to 5 minutes for it to finish saving. Most likely this slow because I've been playing it on a 500MHz pc, but my laptop's HDD is full. Oh, and if someone can tell me how to actually be able to train in skills in Ultima, I'd appreciate it. My first time playing I managed to get Avatar invulnerable, so I had to start over. No fun playing if nothing can budge your health-bar. My second and third time around, I always missed the triggers to get to train my chars. So as far as I'm concerned, Ultima is still a beta. CoL... I still haven't really "finished" this one. I killed the big boss at the end, but I still can't really survive the Desert nor the deep crypts. I don't really feel up to continuing slowly picking out targets in teh desert, and luring them away from their friends to duel them. And that for days on end, to finally maybe get strong enough to start exploring a bit better. If I've missed something out, please tell me, because after 2 full times through I haven't found it, and chances are I won't start anew again the first few years. If I remember correctly, this game was also "unfinished". There's a city that "will be accessible the next release" or something like that. That leaves us with LoH and Mw being the only two completely functional big Siegelets around. Surprisingly, both of them have been made by a single man during his hobby-time. And, shocking, both were made by the same man.  As far as I'm concerned, the two best Siegelets (both in size, story, gameplay and replayablility) are made by Xaa. |
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Post by Xaa on Dec 16, 2006 5:34:07 GMT -5
Although, Xaa, I don't think The Elemental was ever finished. The most recent release I'm aware of, is "release 3 build 2" (Alpha). And the readme's third and fourth sentences are "Please be aware this is a partial release. It does not represent the envisioned final content of the game". Really?! Whoah... Good Lord. That means that my works and Team Lazarus are the only large siegelets that were ever completed. And I cranked out two in the time they were still working on one. CoL... Hell, my names all over that. I helped with the skrits that pulled it all together, and there's a "Xaa" character in it as well as a sound-file I provided for when you meet him. Man... I really thought TE was done, and Wolfmarsh had finally proven himself. And it wasn't done. You know, Wolf decided I was his mortal enemy on the old GE board because I said that having a team of multiple people spread across the planet working on a humongous total conversion as their first project would never work, and the project would never be finished. He told me I was full of sh*t. Everyone on his team did, that was a favorite hobby for them. And yet, I was right again. I also said SoW wouldn't make it, the concept was too large to even be built in ANY system much less DS1, and the team too fragmented and idealistic. Tons of concept art, reams and reams of backstory and character development, no actual models, few actual maps. Everyone told me I was full of sh*t. But, they didn't make it. They switched to the HL engine, then just kind of... Faded. Man... Well, it was a learning experience. And what I learned was that I don't want to produce games for a living. After all the screaming I got on the old forums about free games, I shudder to think what it would have been like if anyone had actually paid money for it. Thank you. ;D |
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Post by charietto on Dec 16, 2006 11:26:16 GMT -5
Lands of Hyperborea is the first map I downloaded for DS and each time I'm starting it again, I happen to think there is something magical in it since the very first second of the introduction up to the end (a bit of nostalgy here, maybe?). Anyway, I started playing DS when it first came out and, after having completed it, I felt a bit disappointed, and drop it for some times, up until I get an internet connection, found Siegenetwork and discover LoH. A map that was making DS how I would have like it to be at first. So I played on it for countless hours. And I just started to play it again yesterday, with a friend of mine who just bought DS... And then, our oversized mouse did it again... and come up with Mageworld! I still have to try the version 3.0, but as I want to take my time to play through the whole SP game again, I'm going to wait until I have some more free time to do so. Ultima is now supposed to have passed the beta stage, but I didn't tried the finished version yet. I liked what I saw in the beta, but, like it has been said before, it's a team work (though having a team sticking like this on a project is kind of an achievement!). Anyway, even if Ultima is great combining an old school huge map with modern 3d graphics, I still like better Xaa's work because is stories, though still fantasy in essence, have tweaks which give them a unique feeling. CoL... I still haven't really "finished" this one. I killed the big boss at the end, but I still can't really survive the Desert nor the deep crypts. I don't really feel up to continuing slowly picking out targets in teh desert, and luring them away from their friends to duel them. And that for days on end, to finally maybe get strong enough to start exploring a bit better. If I've missed something out, please tell me, because after 2 full times through I haven't found it, and chances are I won't start anew again the first few years. If I remember correctly, this game was also "unfinished". There's a city that "will be accessible the next release" or something like that. CoL is not finished. If I recall correctly, Trailstorm Radeem answered on SN boards that if the crypts and desert were looking so tough, it is because that they were supposed to be played after the missing part (the dwarven city), so the character is not ready for the task right after having killed the boss. Another problem that wasn't fixed and impede CoL to be completely playable is the SP save being bugged and not functionnal after having killed the big boss. That leaves us with LoH and Mw being the only two completely functional big Siegelets around. Heeeey!!! That's unfair, you forgot mine  !!! Though I don't really think it stands in the best category, it is complete and fully playable, without too many bugs as far as I know ... Anyway, here again, DS is the first game I ever modded (a bit of masochism here), and I would never have managed to complete this without Xaa's friendly (and most patient) help. Well, all in all, that is not so surprising. I always thought that someone hiding behind a rodent avatar and writing stories about otterish creatures (otter being, for real, my totem animal) and mouse wielding fondue fork should compulsorily be a cool guy. So thanks for all, Mr Xaa. And I'm pretty sure this is not the last occasion we will have to thank you... |
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Post by Kilarin on Dec 16, 2006 20:56:29 GMT -5
You know, I never did get that thing downloaded, that was back when I had dialup. I should try it.
Oh! I forgot CoL, my wife enjoyed that one, I never got around to playing it. She said Trailstorm Radeem made some of the most TERRIFYING monsters. But it wasn't completed if I remember correctly? We lost Trailstorm to GPG, didn't we? Melody thought she saw some of his work in LoA.
Really?, I didn't have any problems like that, except that the story was SO big and SO complex that I just didn't have time to keep up with it anymore. Still intend to go back and finish it someday when work isn't so hectic.
Ultima wasn't PERFECT, there were little bugs here and there, but nothing that stopped me from being able to play, and nothing that I didn't think was inevitable in the DS1 engine.
The did some amazing things. The schedualing system, man, I didn't think you could DO something like that in DS. What makes me sad is that the work took SO long that it came out too late to do the good it could have.
They released ALL of their code to the public domain. IF DS1 mod development was still actively going on, this would have been a FANTASTIC resource for other developers. Unfortuantly, in todays world, no one wants to play anything that doesn't have the most cutting edge graphics available. <sigh>
charietto:
What was your mod named?
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Post by charietto on Dec 17, 2006 9:26:53 GMT -5
You know, I never did get that thing downloaded, that was back when I had dialup. I should try it. I agree with Liantedan post above, The Elemental, as far as I can recall, never made it over the beta (or was it alpha?) stage. The module is heavily bugged (involving overlapping terrain nodes which make the map looks funny, unworking quests, and so on). Equipment isn't fully implemented, so only half-tiger character can use all items, others are limited to eapons and some inventory stuff if I recall correctly. Skills aren't fully implemented too. And there are probably lots of other unfinished thingies, as some stuff they had shown on the pictures they once posted on their website is not visible in the released part. The map is really, really short, but looks promising; the idea looks promising, the gameplay looks promising. But that's it, a promising project that will never be completed. And knowing this makes it immensely frustrating to play. Oh! I forgot CoL, my wife enjoyed that one, I never got around to playing it. She said Trailstorm Radeem made some of the most TERRIFYING monsters. But it wasn't completed if I remember correctly? We lost Trailstorm to GPG, didn't we? Melody thought she saw some of his work in LoA. CoL wasn't completed, see my post above. About Trailstorm Radeem, what he did after he moved was a bit conjectural, based only on the location he moved too. Maybe Xaa has kept in touch with him and know better? charietto: What was your mod named? It's not a reproach, I never made much noise about it, as I never wanted to brag about something that I wasn't sure to be able to finish up until I finally uploaded it. So it got a bit unnoticed (and to make it even more unnoticed, it has been released after DSII, and at about the same time as Ultima beta - I'm a stealthy modder ). It's called Kaishun. You can get it (and its relevant patch) on Omniscient Colossus website, Herena Forge. |
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Post by Kilarin on Dec 17, 2006 11:07:29 GMT -5
thanks, I'll give it a try!
edit: I can't seem to find a download link there!
But then I was up working until 4am last night, so perhaps I'm just sleepy.
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Post by charietto on Dec 17, 2006 12:57:39 GMT -5
I can't seem to find a download link there! But then I was up working until 4am last night, so perhaps I'm just sleepy. It's in the DSI mod gallery, page 2 (don't forget to d/l the font patch too). It's up to me to thank you for giving it a try  . |
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Post by Xaa on Dec 17, 2006 19:18:34 GMT -5
Maybe Xaa has kept in touch with him and know better? Nope. Lost his e-mail ages ago in a crash which cost me my e-mail records. |
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Post by Liantedan on Dec 18, 2006 7:53:50 GMT -5
Yeah, Kaishun... I've started it and ran into troubles with respawning wolves that killed me. Took me about 2 minutes to kill 1 wolf, and 3 minutes to regen back to full health and mana after, and by that time the wolf I had killed would have respawned right next to me. So I got stuck in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by respawned wolves, and the only thing my chars had to do was kill the one that respawned where they were standign and regenerate a bit before it respawned, because they didn't have enough health to fight a second wolf after.
That got me to stop playing it for a while. I tried MP, but on my own it was getting a bit tedious.
Oh, but I did manage to kill those 3 ninjas at the start of the game in SP. Took me at least half an hour with an overuse of the spacebar, so I had some great fun with that. Sadly, I couldn't repeat that way of fighting on other mobs, due to the respawn.
I will, no doubt, try this one again. And I'll keep trying untill I finally get it right, but at the moment I'm giving it a break.
I didn't get far into the game, and likely that's why I forgot to mention it to the list of "big complete siegelets".
I appologise for that.
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!!! Though I don't really think it stands in the best category, it is complete and fully playable, without too many bugs as far as I know 
.