The Electric Tarot - Discussion

[gfb]

So I've been watching the tarot cards coming in for a couple of days now. I'll bite. What was the inspiration for this particular project? There are lots of tarot versions out there. Couldn't find one you liked? Wanted to put your own personal spin on it? More practice with poser?

Do you read Tarot cards, Xaa, or know someone who does?

Err... I think that's all the questions I have so far. Feel free to ignore if you don't feel like answering.

[Xaa]

gfb said:

So I've been watching the tarot cards coming in for a couple of days now. I'll bite. What was the inspiration for this particular project?

The cool factor. I was sitting there and reading an article that described a book written by an italian author where the premise of the story is that he meets some mutes in a tavern, and bad things have happened to them. They want to tell their story, but the only way they can tell what happened to them is by using a deck of tarot cards (they're illiterate, too). It's set in a quasi-fantasy universe, and everyone in the tavern gets into the act trying to figure out what their stories are - which means every character tells a different story.

So, I was sitting there reading that, and I thought "whoah - what a cool story you could tell if the style of the deck was robots and science-fiction themes..."

Poof - a new project.

More practice with poser?

That, too. Plus, it makes an entertaining hobby while I wait for someone to develop a game engine I like.

Do you read Tarot cards, Xaa, or know someone who does?

Mmmm... It's better to say that I have a respect and understanding for the cultural heritage which lies behind them. I don't believe that a deck of cards, a pair of dice, the entrails of a chicken or any other supernatural thing can fortell my future, as I decided a long time ago that the one person who was responsible for my future was myself. However, I have a detailed knowledge of the origins of the cards, the origins and meanings of the symbols used upon them, and how they've changed over the centuries. Jung had an extended commentary on tarot cards and their psychological meanings - it makes for interesting reading.

Hmmm...

You know, I should probably also post the "reversed" cards I've made. I didn't just flip the thing over and say "okay, it's reversed." There is actually differences when the card is "reversed," it's not flipped around. Generally speaking, the colors are chromatically flipped (a "negative image"), but there's more to it than that.

Hmmm...

Well, I'll post the "reversed" cards I've made so you can see what I mean.

Oh - I should mention that the colors of the roses actually mean something. Even in the reversed pictures.

[Kilarin]

Xaa:

while I wait for someone to develop a game engine I like.

Well, it might be an interesting project, but unfortunantly *I* wont be working on it anytime soon. My company has given us a big project and a deadline without enough time and help to get it done. According to our current estimates, we would each have to put in about 100 hours a week to get done by the deadline. Don't you just LOVE managment.

[Xaa]

[gfb]

Very interesting. Thank you for satisfying my curiosity, Xaa.

<edit>

*snerk*

[Xaa]

Hmmm... Five cents a minute dealing with a computer that spits out a random assortment of cards for each click. Overhead for a typical server is about $25 a month including the internet connection, power, everything. Figure maybe ten million people every hour see that ad. If only one in a million clicks, that's ten people every hour. Figure you dangle them along for their CC number and get at least a good five minutes out of each, that's a quarter a customer, two and a half bucks an hour, every hour, all day, all night. Figure monthly income is going to be on the close order of $21,000 a year before you start selling them scented candles, "personalized" readings, spirit crystals, scented bath oils...

Man, I am in the wrong racket.

[Kilarin]

I don't think I want to follow the reversed emperor.

So, what is the signifigance of reversing the tarot cards? is this something done with the "real" tarot, or does it only have meaning in your story?

[Xaa]

kilarin said:

I don't think I want to follow the reversed emperor.

So, what is the signifigance of reversing the tarot cards? is this something done with the "real" tarot, or does it only have meaning in your story?

Mmmm... Well, see my earlier reply.

As I create these things I have a "world" and "story" in mind, but basically they're just my interpretation of tarot cards. This is a project I'm doing in my spare time. If you examine The Fool, The Magician, the High Priestess and The Empress, you can see I'm gradually working my way through the "Fool's Journey," but with robots.

[gfb]

kilarin said:

I don't think I want to follow the reversed emperor.

So, what is the signifigance of reversing the tarot cards? is this something done with the "real" tarot, or does it only have meaning in your story?

When you deal the cards for a reading some of the cards end up "reversed" (depending, of course, on how you shuffle the deck, but that's another story). Basically some cards are right-side-up and others are up-side-down (though in a 2 person reading I've never been clear on if this is from the reference of the reader or the client). If a card is up-side-down it is reversed and the meaning or significance of the card changes, usually something approximating the opposite of the regular meaning of the card.

[Xaa]

Wow, was *I* sleepy when I replied to Kilarin before.

Yes, that's the answer. When used for "diviniation", some of the dealt cards will end up reversed, which have alternate (usually inverted) meanings.

[Xaa]

When I was a kid, I kind of looked at the Rider-Waite-Smith deck as being a kind of picture book, handed down from the ages - but, all the pages of the story are out of order. I would often amuse myself by trying to create a story out of the entire deck, using all the cards.

Hey, it beat playing solitaire, at any rate.

As it turned out, my original thought of it being a picture-book wasn't too far off from what it really was. Each image is, in essence, a universal archetype - a reflection of things that all of us experience in our life. All of us, at some point (particularly when we're young) play the fool. All of us have encountered a trickster in our lives (or heard of someone who's been conned). All of us have seen or read about heroes and villians, and so on. I think this is why the RWS deck is so popular, even a century after it was conceived - by placing archetypal images on *all* the cards, not just the major arcana, the deck strikes a chord with everyone who views it. Everyone sees *something* in the images. Though, of course, what everyone sees is not necessarily the same thing.

[gfb]

I had a Tarot deck given to me by my Aunt years ago when I was a kid, so naturally I did some reading to figure out how to use them. My impression of it was it was a lot of interpretive mumbo-jumbo, though. All the books I read (as I recall I actually checked several books out of the local library on the subject) were vague at best about how to carry out a reading (gave the basic forms, but was short on specifics like how to shuffle the deck so that cards were properly randomized, had the opportunity to be "reversed", etc.). If those instructions were vague, however, the instructions on interpreting a fully delt reading were almost non-existent. I wrote it off as more magic-garbage for the ignorant consumer to waste money on, removed the extra cards, and used it like a poker deck (which I'm sure someone is going to tell me is horribly bad luck or some other superstitious nonsense). I actually bought a Thoth deck specifically with the intention of using it as a poker deck. I played a lot of the game "13" when I was in high school.

[Xaa]

gfb said:

My impression of it was it was a lot of interpretive mumbo-jumbo, though.

Heavy on the mumbo, too.

Most books on the subject are written from the premise that dealing a hand of cards can fortell your future. If you buy that premise, then everything else follows naturally, we ignore known laws of physics. The world, the universe and everything in it boils down to a random shuffle of printed paper sheets, and only your actions - YOU, the person getting the reading - have any real effect on reality. You are the center of the universe, noone else matters.

No, really. Consider all the possible random factors that could influence which cards you get. A trillion trillion possible combinations of air and humidity and the genetics and life-experiences of the person shuffling the cards and countless other possible random elements can influence the hand that will be dealt.

Well, if your personal future is so important that the entire universe is structured to bring together a trillion trillion possible combinations of air and humidity and physics and genetics all to display a specific set of cards that correctly show what your future will be, then you are literally the only person who matters in the universe - everyone else exists for the express purpose of making sure that those cards fall precisely the right way to show you what will happen.

Of course, this then begs the question of what happens to the NEXT person who gets a reading. Does the entire universe do a massive paradigm shift in who is important each time the deck is shuffled?

Well, obviously not. So, like I said, those books are written from the premise that a random shuffle of cards can show you the future. Once you buy that premise, everything else follows naturally. If you don't buy that premise, however, then you're left with just a random shuffle of cards.

I personally view the images as being evocative. In other words, they are archetypal images of events and characters experienced by all humans at one point in time or another. As such, the real function is to stimulate your mind, to get you to think about events in a different way. A reversed "Chariot" pops up in a reading. You might *not* get that promotion at work. Then what will you do? Quit? Work out a better retirement plan? What? By prodding your mind with different possibilities, you become better able to see what may or may not happen, and prepare for the possible consequences. Jungian/Freudian archetypes that prod at your subconscious, making you think.

But as far as predicting the future, no, I don't believe Tarot cards can do that - nor can reading the entrails of chickens, throwing dice, or any other traditional method of divination. The future is limitless possibilities, and the only one in charge of your fate is you.

[gfb]

admin said:

A reversed "Chariot" pops up in a reading.

Speaking of which: nice Chariot. I particularly like that one.

[Xaa]

gfb said:

admin said:

A reversed "Chariot" pops up in a reading.

Speaking of which: nice Chariot. I particularly like that one.

Well, with that one, we're getting back to the original "meaning" of the card - perseverance, a journey, a rushed decision, adversity, turmoil, vengeance.

In most of the original art prior to the RWS deck, the image is of an armored king, apparently riding off to war. In the RWS deck, Arthur Waite inserted quite a bit of imagery to many of the cards that hadn't been there before. This is charitably called "re-imagining." Well, I'm "re-imagining" it back. Waite used two sphynxes, a top, and other symbols to turn the card into one of balance. The Chariot has nothing to do with balance, it has to do with travel, rushing along, persevering, turmoil, etc. Remember, back in the days of horse-drawn vehicles, chariots were actually pretty damn fast. It's about speed, movement, rushing along... It's the "Tom Cruise" card. I Feel The Need - The Need For Speed.

So, in my "re-imagined" version, we see a fembot riding what is, essentially, a jet engine with control grips.

Note, however, that we don't see much in the way of control surfaces. There's a kind of tail-assembly, but that doesn't look like it would provide a lot of control. It's risky travel, not necessarily wise. But damned fast. Our heroine is definitely going somewhere, and she's going there damned fast. That covers the sense of journeying, rushed decisions - and controlling that incredibly dangerous ride would definitely imply perseverance.

Turmoil, adversity and vengeance are represented by the guns and that she's flying upwards. You may have missed the guns in the first look - look again. That thing is armed, it has twin machineguns in the front. In our "normal" card, she is not merely flying above the city, check out her angle - she is flying upwards. Patrolling, perhaps, or responding to a potential threat, possibly heading into a conflict with an enemy.

The overall meanings I'm getting at become even more clear in the reverse of the card. Traditionally, the reversed card means "Unsuccessful, defeat, failure, last minute loss, vanquishment." If you look at the reverse, check out the buildings behind her. She's no longer high above the city and flying upwards - she's low, heading towards the ground, and about to crash.

I'm actually putting quite a bit of effort into symbology in this project. Good excercise for the imaginative portions of my brain, I think.