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Post by Blondin235 on Jun 2, 2009 10:24:03 GMT -5
 - is that for real, 340035 Mana required to cast the spell..!!? - wow, one cast and you'd be dead..!! |
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Post by Liantedan on Jun 3, 2009 4:36:50 GMT -5
The Nature/Combat Spells in LoH are divided in multiple cathegories.
Nature : Elementalist, Druidism, Priestly Magic.
Combat : Necromancy, Battle-Magic, Sorcery.
Of these six, only Druidism and Sorcery have minimum level requirements to be cast. They have a minimum amount of mana cost, and from the required level that cost will scale upward. They also only cost mana, not health as well.
The other four have no minimum level required to cast, but their mana scales differently. They start out with a manacost that is impossibly high, though as you level, it will eventually get quite low, until a certain level/cost and will rise slightly again. These spells overall cost less mana to cast than the other two cathegories ( when used efficiently, as their effects scale according to the level as well ), but cost health as well.
And then there are the exceptions. The spells that cost 100% of your mana, no matter how much/little that may be. Whether or not they also drain health still is dependant on the cathegory they fall into.
If you don't have the mana required to cast a spell, you just can't cast it. You can only kill yourself casting, when your health is half -or less than half- your mana ( beware regeneration ).
If you don't even have a single level in one of the magics, the spells with no minimum level will indeed have ludicrously high manacosts. But if you look at the cost at "next level" ( in this case "at skill level 1" ), it will have dropped significantly ( in this case from 340035 to 3402 ). Still a bit steep for a puny 2 to 4 damage, agreed.
<hypothetical : I haven't checked these values, but I'm making a calculated guess now>
By the time you're level 10 in Nature Magic, the cost of this spell will probably be around 100 mana or less, for 20 to 40 damage, with a duration of nearly a minute. At which point the spell becomes "efficient". Keep levelling, and by the time you're level 15, the spell will be at its cheapest to cast, with an endlessly increasing damage. By 20, the cost has gone up again, but so has the damage. By 25, there probably is another spell that has the same effect as this one, but has just entered its state of "efficiency", and you swap to that spell. And so on.
</hypothetical>
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Post by Blondin235 on Jun 6, 2009 8:45:40 GMT -5
- wow, there's more to it than I thought..
- just found a guy in Kazah'Duun selling spellbooks,
..I'll put the various spell-types in their own books..
- now off to find that Bow for old Dalar (- again!) ;D
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Post by Blondin235 on Jun 7, 2009 18:20:09 GMT -5
OK, I've done all of Lord Dalar's quests, and I have some choice weapons as a result.. - can't use the Kill-Kill axe yet, though!! I now have to destroy Lactri.. I know where the monster is hiding, but I fear I'll need to become extremely powerful before I can defeat her..  - any advice on the best way to get my strength up, like where I should go for the best scraps - what weapons, spells etc; would be best for Operation Lactri..?? - gotta say it, this is still a really great game.. - even after all this time, it stacks up well against some of the - lighter in content (- but flashier looking..) stuff that's around at the moment....!! - the storyline is excellent, and I like the way you have to uncover the info for yourself..  |
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Post by Kilarin on Jun 7, 2009 23:37:16 GMT -5
Have you done the castle quest?
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Post by Liantedan on Jun 9, 2009 3:22:04 GMT -5
Overall I have found that if you can get all the way there -without sneaking, of course- your level is high enough to take on Lactri. ( Assuming you follow the intended setup of skills, and crack out the proper weapons/spells. ) She's only level 50 in SP, but level 100 in MP. So just stock up on useful spells and such before you go, and by the time you're doen with Lactri, you'll be level 45 or higher. ( Unless you are a VERY good player, and somehow managed to finish Dalar's quests without levelling. But then you should also be fine against Lactri anyway. )
After that, you can do the King's Quest. ( It requires being at least level 45, I believe. ) If you can do it already, and haven't yet cleared the Endless Stairs yet, you won't have too much a problem with Lactri.
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Post by Kilarin on Jun 10, 2009 23:34:29 GMT -5
Argh! yes, Liantendan is right, as usual. Castle quest comes AFTER Lactri.
And, as he says, Lactri isn't that difficult if you've spent some time in the swamp, and run through Valhalla a few times. ESPECIALLY the Valhalla run, those dragons are worth a LOT of experience. And are FUN to boot.
Then, by the time you hit the bottom of the endless stair, Lactri will be a challenge, but by no means impossible.
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Post by Liantedan on Jun 11, 2009 4:27:20 GMT -5
Thank you for the compliment, Kilarin. ;D Though I'm afraid I have to disagree again.  Normally you only get to the swamp around the time of the King's Quest, after Lactri, unless you've gotten lost in the Incabulous Forest. In Valhalla, you are only supposed to go to town, get the Sould of a Valkyie, and go back to Dalar. The Training Grounds are off-limits, supposedly. Good thing too, as those dragons are level 80-ish. If you want to best Lactri in MP, yes, you need to level up quite a bit. Swamp, King's Quest, Valkyrie Hunting Grounds and whatnot. Simply because Lactri is level 100, there. In SP, however, Lactri is level 50. Do Dalar's quests, and you should be around level 30. By the time you get to the bottom of the Endless Stairs, you should be closing ( or past ) 40, and after Lactri 45 or above. I also often mix up the order to do thing, Kilarin. It's a bit different in SP and MP, which brings some confusion with it. It really shows how much difference a few tiny details can make to the whole.  Party setup in MP can even swap the order of where to go in Dalar's quest ( SP ). Sometimes getting the Heart Bow is far and away easier than getting the Shaft of Ice that Never Melts, despite it being intended the other way around. |
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Post by Kilarin on Jun 11, 2009 12:41:22 GMT -5
They may not be NECESSARY, but I certainly do them way before Lactri.  I go through LOH in a bit of an unusual order I guess. When I'm in Tir'Malani, on the way back from the necromancer, I take out the guards blocking the way to lactri. With soul lance and a LOT of running away, it's possible. Then I take out lactri's handmaid. Thats as far as I go the first time. I sneak over to the swamp through the back rout from TirMalani. It's VERY VERY hard (for me) to survive there at that level, but I usually manage to take out a lot of the ordinary trolls, and one or two of the big guys. I make a speed run to the light elves early, because I need spells for my nature mage! Gotta visit the Valley of the Giants, of course. Then I usually head back to the swamp a 2nd or third time to get loot so I can buy lots of goodies at the dwarves! And I ALWAYS fight my way to the end of the dragons and back at least twice. Gotta love Valhalla! One of the things I LOVE about LOH is how open ended it is. There is a path you should follow through the story. BUT, if you feel brave and want to head into the swamp early, you can. But unless you are both brave AND clever, you won't be coming back out!  So, like I said, Liantendan is right, you can go straight to Lactri without going through the swamp or valhala. But they are, in my humble opinion, more FUN when you do them early! |
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Post by Liantedan on Jun 12, 2009 2:45:24 GMT -5
Very true, Kilarin.
Though I also truly enjoy a game of tag with a ( swamp- )troll that can whack me flat in a single hit, I try not to in SP. Done right, they give loads of xp ( I'm guessing they're level 60 ). Same for the giants, except that they are even trickier to time right.
It's good fun in MP, but in SP it means I'd level too fast, and get stuck still having to do the quests which will be under my party's level, and end up being no challenge at all.
So in SP, after getting the useful spells from Tir'Malani, I head over to Gnarshtooth's Tradingpost. With the heartstopper ( purchased in Hamlin ) in the hands of my minion ( from Tir'Malani ), it's not too big a problem to lure out the defenses there one-by-one and take them down with T'Vril and your main character - while your minion keeps the target busy so you won't need any healing at all.
That way, you stay on "friendly" footing with all of Tir'Malani, in case you want to go talk to the local populace after. No attacking anything in the city ( other than those crystal thingies ). And yet, you still have enough Shadow Leather for everyone from the Trading Post.
Once you have a bit of money to spare, T'Vril gets sent out to visit the Goblins, since usually my main character in SP is Ranged, as was intended.
So by the time Dalar's quests are done, with the exception of that small detour to Gnarshtooth's and the Goblins, we didn't deviate much of the path the quest set us on, but we are fully ready to take on the Stairs and Lactri.
Nice ranged weapon for the main char, spells and special staff for T'Vril, and some heavy stuff for the minion. Often, augmented with some +Intelligence items, the minion sports a certain sword-on-fire and a big shield for optimal defense.
Of course, for those not so certain of themselves, there's been people who've used the minion as a sapper to best Lactri. Fairly straight-forward, lots of damage, finished in seconds. Just not as much fun as an actual fight, for me.
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Post by Kilarin on Jun 12, 2009 11:53:27 GMT -5
Ah yes, I had forgotten the fun of picking them off! Oh, I agree, but it only seems to cause major problems if you use particle attack spells/weapons. Due to that very frustrating DS bug, any attack with fire or such can send you swirling up levels so fast that you can NOT die. So I try to attack with spells and weapons that don't do that. Soul Lance gives rational experience, as do ordinary mele weapons. This is making me want to play AGAIN. I've got DS working in linux now. I need to install LOH and see how well it runs in a REAL operating system. |
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