Buggy Knight Armor

[Zesvotzashni Sinkunndai'Jari]

I re-equipped my oriented armor and it's appearance degraded to the rank 1 half-bikini look, previously it was looking like a chainmail suit that covered everything except my legs.

It's stuck at rank 1 now, it has never shown any armor increase in the tooltip, either, according to the FAQ it should be giving me +2 to my armor at 15-19 STR (I have 19).

What's up with this?

[Liantedan]

The looks and the stats are not always linked directly.

The chain suit that covers all except the legs is a "special" appearance. This appearance has no difference than the regular half bikini appearance, statwise. It's just a special appearance you can unlock.
Though characters with that appearance are overall slightly more dangerous than those with the regular appearance, it's not the armour itself that makes the difference in this case. ( * hint hint * )

For armour value of the armour, don't look at the armour itself. Look at your total armour value in your stat list. Unequip the armour, check your tota armour value in the stats list, equip it, and compare the change.
Your total armour value in your stats list should increase by more than the armour value listed on the oriented armour.

[Zesvotzashni Sinkunndai'Jari]

Oct 13, 2009 0:52:23 GMT -5 Liantedan said:

The chain suit that covers all except the legs is a "special" appearance. This appearance has no difference than the regular half bikini appearance, statwise. It's just a special appearance you can unlock.
Though characters with that appearance are overall slightly more dangerous than those with the regular appearance, it's not the armour itself that makes the difference in this case. ( * hint hint * )

Oh, I thought that was the next level of the armor's appearance so if that's not then does the armor ever get more "full" looking like the Elder Knight's or does it always stay as a half-bikini with a random special appearance that sometimes occurs?

[Liantedan]

Yes, it does look like that full plate at some point. I'm not sure exactly at which level, though. I'm guessing no earlier than 20 strength, but don't take my word for that.

[Zesvotzashni Sinkunndai'Jari]

Well I'll be at 20 STR soon so I guess I'll find out..

I was just wondering been reading the forums alot and I saw a couple threads about superior versions of the armor I have right now and the general stats required for them, I also read up on how melee isn't that good later on I was thinking about crafting the items sometime but now I'm questioning if it'll even be worth it cause it'll be a long time before I hit 25+ STR.

Another is just how hard is the later rows? I'm on the very early 4th/5th(Kind of) rows ATM and it's been pretty easyish to quite tricky so far, another forum I read on someone was saying the later ones got so bad they said something like the ""programmer" (As they put it) has some issuses" I imagine it must be very hard for somebody to say something like that.

BTW why hasen't Xaa posted in, like... Eight or so months? I remember back on SN he posted literally 24/7 he was always on and most threads had atleast 1 post from him, I remember back in the day everybody and their brother was talking about this game, now it's like tumbleweeds in here.

[Liantedan]

...I'm questioning if it'll even be worth it...

It's very good armour, and definitely worth having, if you can wear it. As far as the Single Player game goes, I'm afraid it may rather be a waste of time and effort.
1 - Mageworld is often compared to rock-scissors-paper, as combat goes. If you only have one answer to give, against all three questions, you will sometimes win, sometimes end in a draw, and sometimes lose.
2 - Sometimes your "rock" can -and will- be countered with "boulder", or even "mountain".
3 - The game is called Mageworld. The name contains a hint as to which of the three ways to combat is -supposedly- the better choise.
4 - Playing a balanced character throughout SinglePlayer is encouraged. I vaguely remember having read about it through the whole span of the ReadMe. Usually for reason #1.
5 - If you don't play a balanced character, and you only have a rock at your disposal to try to counter a mountain, you need the biggest rock you can get, and hope you know what you're doing with it.
If you max out your character in SinglePlayer, you CANNOT export it to MultiPlayer.

...just how hard is the later rows?...

Pretty hard, yes.
Especially if all you can reply is "rock".
Expect to drop dead from a single arrow before you can even see the Elder Bishop that shot it. Expect to be struck by lightning, crushed by boulders and pounced by demons while you run towards the castle gates, all at once. If you somehow manage to survive all that, expect some pawns to keep you blocking while Elder Knights flail you into a well-armoured pile of goo.
Unless you're very skilled at manual dodging, are very lucky, and have some expertise at using the limits withing the engine in your favour. Then you stand a vague chance to survive all that with just "rock" as you answer.

Until you arrive at the King, of course.

He doesn't say "rock". Nor "mountain". He says "planet". And unless your "rock" is a doomsday comet...
Well, let's stick to happy thoughts for now.

...I imagine it must be very hard for somebody to say something like that.

I think the ReadMe somewhere vaguely mentioned something along those lines...
Wait...
On second thought, the ReadMe stated exactly that, as unmistakebly as a sledgehammer to the head.

Here's a random quote straight from the ReadMe, but rest assured, this is only a short snippet from the long -though fun- text :

Mageworld is HARD. No, let me say that again - MAGEWORLD IS HARD.
I don't mean "Oh, gee, it's a little difficult", I mean to tell you that
the single-player game is a flat-out female dog. It should take the typical
player a month to complete the SP game. Some players will take longer.
Many people will never complete it at all, because they simply lack
the skills and the patience to manage it. You will die and have to
restart from your last save literally thousands of times before you
figure out tactics that work. If you are expecting a game that's as easy
as original DS was, you will be disappointed. No, let me put that a
better way: If you are expecting a game that's as easy as original DS,
you will be screaming with frustration and tearing your hair out in huge
clumps with both hands. Your neighbors will call the police because
they will hear your screams and think someone's being murdered in your
house. Even if you're smart enough to understand what I'm saying and
are expecting the game to be hard, let me tell you, it's harder than
you are imagining. MAGEWORLD IS HARD.

I enjoy a good challenge. Especially one that's as fun as this game. ;D

...why hasen't Xaa posted...

Last thing I heard he was very busy still with moving to his new publisher and with new books he's working on.

[Zesvotzashni Sinkunndai'Jari]

Oct 16, 2009 8:55:04 GMT -5 Liantedan said:

Pretty hard, yes.
Especially if all you can reply is rock
Expect to drop dead from a single arrow before you can even see the Elder Bishop that shot it. Expect to be struck by lightning, crushed by boulders and pounced by demons while you run towards the castle gates, all at once. If you somehow manage to survive all that, expect some pawns to keep you blocking while Elder Knights flail you into a well-armoured pile of goo.
Unless you're very skilled at manual dodging, are very lucky, and have some expertise at using the limits withing the engine in your favour. Then you stand a vague chance to survive all that with just "rock" as you answer.

Until you arrive at the King, of course.

He doesn't say "rock". Nor "mountain". He says "planet". And unless your "rock" is a doomsday comet...
Well, let's stick to happy thoughts for now. .

Oh god.... Sounds like some of the obstacle courses I make and play on another game I have + A World of Wacraft raid instance, but trying to do with 1 person, so it looks like it'll be a whole lot of dieing until I figure it out.

However I've currently got all my skills (Except Mundane) at 19 ATM and trying to keep them close together I've been using pretty much a mix of diffrent things to survive I hope that is good enough for "balance".
I think I know how I'm gonna handle the Elder Knights + Pawns, but how in the world am I going to kill a Bishop that can 1-shot me? And from all the research I did, kill whole UNITS of them? A single 5th row Bishop can bring me to half health without a shield (Magic or otherwise) on.

[Liantedan]

It's good fun though !

As things gradually get trickier, and as you keep on making better equipment and more spells for yourself, you will also discover more ways of dealing with your opponents.

I'd say that if a player can
1 - get to the second region ( ergo, past the pawn with the throwing knife ), and
2 - not freeze to death in the first cold region,
the player has what it takes to reach the Queen.

Point one means the player can fight, and win. Despite being at a disadvantage.
Point two means the player actually bothers to read stuff and listens to Mantri, and is smart enough to work out how to make equipment.

If the player also bothered to develop some tactics that employ at least two out of three of melee, ranged and magic, the player can reach the King too.
If the player decided that pure melee is adequate, they likely will have a problem in the long run. ( But I mentioned that earlier anyway. )

That you haven't started whining about Mageworld before you left the White homerows, is indication that you have it in you to finish the game.
The game isn't ment to be easy, so don't expect it to be easy.
Yet, seeing you've come this far already, you should have faith in yourself. You can finish it.

[Xaa]

Oct 15, 2009 0:44:46 GMT -5 Zesvotzashni Sinkunndai'Jari said:

BTW why hasen't Xaa posted in, like... Eight or so months?

Because I've been too busy.

[Kilarin]

Good to hear from you Xaa! We miss you around here. I understand the "busy" part though. My life has kinda been turned upside down and inside out and it makes it hard to have time to post. <sigh>

why hasen't Xaa posted in, like... Eight or so months?

He DID post in the books section fairly recently. If you like Xaa's games, consider checking out his books! Muse is MY favorite.

Zesvotzashni Sinkunndai'Jari said:

I imagine it must be very hard for somebody to say something like that.

Liantedan Said:

It's good fun though !

Exactly. It's the challenge that makes it fun. EVERY challenge in Mageworld can be defeated. And each one of them leaves you feeling like you actually ACCOMPLISHED something when you did it.

Folks who want less of a challenge can play Progress Quest

And "Hard" doesn't mean "Nearly impossible". It just means that the tasks DO take a lot of thinking and some good strategy. I took out most of the last row with out any help from my companions, and using "magic dart" almost exclusively.

[Zesvotzashni Sinkunndai'Jari]

Oct 20, 2009 14:49:38 GMT -5 Kilarin said:

He DID post in the books section fairly recently. If you like Xaa's games, consider checking out his books! Muse is MY favorite.

I've read alittle of his books that he added to the ingame library on Q1 and some of his forum posts, while I do like his sense of story telling he has soo many books/series I really don't know which one to pick and read first.

Oct 20, 2009 14:49:38 GMT -5 Kilarin said:

Exactly. It's the challenge that makes it fun. EVERY challenge in Mageworld can be defeated. And each one of them leaves you feeling like you actually ACCOMPLISHED something when you did it.

Folks who want less of a challenge can play Progress Quest

And "Hard" doesn't mean "Nearly impossible". It just means that the tasks DO take a lot of thinking and some good strategy. I took out most of the last row with out any help from my companions, and using "magic dart" almost exclusively.

How do you deal with groups of Bishops? I have alot of problems with them when there is more than 2-3 of them, difficult to get them into a position where they are bunched up and easy pickings for lightning and difficult to get them spread out enough to kill 1by1 with melee.

Also, what's the best way for leveling INT? My Talent is alot higher than my other skills but INT still goes slowly while the other 2 level alittle quicker, do Knights just take longer to level their INT stat?

[Kilarin]

How do you deal with groups of Bishops?

I used HOLD a lot. And an enormous amount of sneaking.
Divide and conquer is an important strategy. If you can get one bad guys attention without the others noticing you, he will come and chase you and the others will stay behind. Then you can deal with him alone.

[Liantedan]

Yes, sneaking really helps. You can often take out big groups of enemies with Lightning, without them even knowing what hit them.
If for some reason you can't sneak into spell-range ( Truesight opponent, don't want to sneak, or just haven't learned the skill ), there are other options.

Usually I root the spellcasters ( so they can't run when you get close ), and melee them. Or shoot them, if they'd finish their spell before I get into melee range. Or, occasionally, I feel like showing them how *real* spells are cast, and just trade spells. Usually they don't survive my first spell.

Archers can be rooted and melee'd too, but it can be tricky. Make sure you have a good shield to keep between you and the arrows. Once they've missed/hit your shield, you have some time to run up to them and beat them into submission before they can shoot again. Though, be sure to melee quickly, because if your attacks are slow, they can and will run away. ( The root breaks when hit, so keep them too busy to run. )
Or have a stand-off. Make sure to use Magic Armour, just in case. You won't be dodging while casting or shooting, so keeping your distance will throw off their accuracy as well as your own, which should be to your advantage. ( If you have kept your Precision up, or are casting spells rather than shooting back. )

Against melee opponents, as Kilarin said, Magic Dart is deadly. It's one of the most deadly spells in the game, if your Talent is high enough.
You can try to melee them. Shouldn't be much of a problem, unless at the last rows. There it'll be quite tricky. Especially against the Ancient Knights.
Or shoot them before they reach you, and then finish them off with melee or magic. ( Even my pure melee MP char throws stuff at her opponents before engaging in melee, occasionally. )

Really, there's plenty different ways to defeat your opponents. Once you discover most recipies, you have so many tools ( weapons/spells/etc ) at your disposal. Some ways work better against certain opponents, but there's still a very broad choice.
I often change my tactics midgame, just to prevent thing from getting repetitive, or just because I feel like playing it a different way that day.
Of course, if you haven't found many recipies, you won't have much choice.

Talent levels Int best.
There's a chart somewhere that says which skill levels which stat how much, but seeing I'm at work atm, I don't have it handy.
I think it was something like this :
If you gain 100 xp by...
Confidence
+75 to Str
+50 to Dex
+ 7 to Int
Precision
+50 to Str
+75 to Dex
+ 7 to Int
Talent
+50 to Str
+50 to Dex
+75 to Int
Mundane
+33 to Str
+33 to Dex
+33 to Int
It may not be the exact numbers, but they're close anyway. Talent gives you overall the highest stats, Mundane the lowest.

This means that unless you focus on Talent ( from the start ), your Int will always stay well behind on your other stats. If you want more Int, keep Talent 1 or 2 levels ahead of your other skills.

Knights start out with an initial bonus to Str. So by comparison, their Int has an even longer way to go in catching up to it.

Your first few levels usually make the biggest impact on your character, statwise, and the more you level, the harder it gets to make changes there.
Since you have to cross a few regions and fight off many opponents before you can even start using your Talent, you are at logical disadvantage. But it makes sense.
Knights are the melee fighters in Mageworld. Bishops do archery and spells. That's how the board is set up by the Wizard-Kings.
Being a Knight, picking up a bow and/or casting a spell gives you an advantage: You're no longer limited to saying "rock". Yet, this doesn't mean your "paper" will ever be larger than that of those who can only say "paper". Nor will your "rock" be as big as that of those who can only say "rock".
You win by putting your strengths against their weaknesses, not against their strengths.

That said, if you want more Int, I can assume what you really want is more mana. Because mana is as high as your Int, like your health is as your Str.
If I assumed correctly, I'd suggest you try to figure out how to make the Magic Staff.

[Zesvotzashni Sinkunndai'Jari]

Thanks everyone for all the advice, it's a good thing I asked as just alittle after reading this I stumbled upon the humungous fight near the little keep on KR5, talk about aggro-city, after using some new tactics against the group of Bishops I was able to do it.

Oct 22, 2009 1:39:35 GMT -5 Liantedan said:

If I assumed correctly, I'd suggest you try to figure out how to make the Magic Staff.

Yes you assumed correctly, however since I already made a mage staff my main concern for mana was when I don't have my staff equipped, cause even with 4 runes of creation I can burn through mana fast, I think even the bear has got more mana than me last I checked.
I guess I'll just keep it equipped and cast everything I need to cast before I switch weapons until I can build my TAL up more.

BTW what is the amount of XP you need for your elan to purple out? I've seen both the 300k and 500k markers around on this subject and I kind of want it cleared up a bit cause I'm going to beat on Knights and Spiders for a while to level up my skills and I don't want my save broken sometime in the future.

[Liantedan]

Oct 22, 2009 17:58:44 GMT -5 Zesvotzashni Sinkunndai'Jari said:

BTW what is the amount of XP you need for your elan to purple out?

Some time ago I posted the answer to that question...
Let me find it for you, as it's been a while and I don't remember the exact numbers anymore, but I know I did back then.

In this thread you should be able to find your answer.