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Post by Kilarin on Jun 29, 2005 8:24:56 GMT -5
About a month ago, someone over on another board system claimed that the enemies in LOH were way to powerful and completely unbeatable. The player was speaking specifically of the Bears and Wolves you run into at the beginning of the game. Well, I got inspired and fired up LOH again last night, and started a new game on HARD mode. I also decided to train my Hero as a Nature Mage. That means he'll be getting by with pretty much ZAP and Healing Hands for a LONG time. So, on hard mode, using ZAP as my primary weapon, I managed to take out most (I think all) of the wolves and bears without having to restore from a save game even once. It just required that I use a lot of tactics that were completely unnecessary in the original DS. You simply can NOT allow those monsters to hit you, you have to attack, step back, attack, let that bear just start his swing, step back, attack, etc. I even killed the Dark Elf Assassin and the Gobbot, But I DID die several times in those combats. But then, you aren't really supposed to fight those enemies, you are supposed to sneak past them. BUT, that is probably what I love MOST about LOH. In DS, you generally went through a linear sequence of monsters who were all just powerful enough for you to be able to take them out in toe to toe combats without having to sweat very much. In LOH the monsters "at your level" are strong enough to require that you THINK about your combats if you want to live. AND, oh the joy! There are MANY opportunities to challenge yourself with combats where you are COMPLETELY outclassed. These combats are hard, hard enough to make your adrenaline pump, hard enough so that when you finally win, you'll have an INCREDIBLE sense of accomplishment, because you KNOW that you didn't win because your character had tough magic armor, or powerful spells, or the best sword. You won because YOU, the player, out thought the enemy. You won because, despite being in way over your head, you used your weak and under powered character to it's absolute best advantage and took out an enemy that was supposed to be a challenge to characters much higher level than you. And that's why I Love LOH. DS NEVER gave me a rush like that. If you have never played LOH, I urge you to download and try it. You'll probably find that DS2 pales by comparison. If you HAVE played LOH, but it was a LONG time ago, it might be time to dust off that old rar file and fire it up again. I'm finding that it has aged VERY well.
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Post by NARAYAN on Jul 1, 2005 5:38:24 GMT -5
I have little complains about it.There is only few patterns and you cannot make one.I can make armor for my char and robe for T'vril but gloves,boots and helmet are single.I don't find basic important skills in beginning like bone crafting,Alchemy etc.I will have to travel very long to get basic skills.Also I cannot pickup green berry and clear out the area.I don't want to throw crafting items but I will have to do.
For level up I am unable to forget Valkarie hunting ground.Each time my char gets easy levels there and enemies no matter how much hard they are will start falling.This is one of the reasons I stopped playing it long ago.Well After your advice I have tried it again and feels happy.Once you got progressive dragon minigun ,experience will start dropping like rain.You can get each type of char in SP but I think lord colingway is not the solution of valkayrie.Also our hero can't beat sikari in range.I cannot purchase throwing spear from white sikari in SP.
I am stared thinking there will more fun when you take demon,amazon,robbie etc chars from MW and Play Hyperboria again.This is my personal feelings about this map as I know there will be no upgrade in future for it.
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Post by Kilarin on Jul 1, 2005 9:19:43 GMT -5
NARAYAN: Yes, the Mageworld crafting system is much richer, but the Mageworld crafting system is rich precisely because Xaa started working on it in LOH. An unfortunate flaw in the orig DS experience system. And one of the reasons Xaa rewrote that system when he moved to Mageworld. Ha, I imagine THAT would have many unintended consequences. They wouldn't have the right skills or abilities or anything. I'm suspecting you would get a nasty crash if you import a MW character into LOH. What difficulty level are you playing? I'm playing HARD, and I never tried playing LOH on HARD from the very beginning. It's hard. No, I mean HARD! Holy Toledo! Bandits with 460 hit points who make one hit kills. Wow! I headed into the bandit forest thinking I would keep my encounters down to two, perhaps three bandits at the most, just to keep it in control. I ended up luring ONE black wolf back into hamlin and working VERY hard to take it down. When I quit last night, I was still trying to take out ONE bandit. On HARD mode, from the beginning, LOH is, well, lets just say that on the Rockwell scale, this puppy is right up there with diamond. Especially when you are running two mages who have a rather restricted spell list to start with. Just getting to the dark elves is going to be a complete NIGHTMARE. And I SHUDDER to think what the trip to the light elves will be like. Yowch! Which all comes down to, I'm having a complete and total BLAST! For the third time through, HARD mode is quite a challenge. I wouldn't recommend it to new LOH players. They will probably be much happier sticking with easy or normal.
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Hacknshoot
Full Member
I am no person but myself, no matter what anyone says!
Posts: 52
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Post by Hacknshoot on Jul 1, 2005 9:39:32 GMT -5
Wow, good job. I'm trying it on easy to get a feel of it, then I'm taking my main guy to Hard MP to fight alone after I win the game. Ok, he can decimate anything I have seen so far, but can he beat them on Hard, eh?
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Post by NARAYAN on Jul 1, 2005 21:01:39 GMT -5
If Xaa created much richer crafting mod for MW then it should be easy to tranfer the mod for LOH and LOH crafting system will also be rich.I know this will not be happen.
LOH is not hard even in hard mode ,just you need correct skills in correct time.Just use clork of shadows and get right skills and you will be invincble.Like if T'vril goes Tirmaleen she will be powerful but if she goes goblin town your main hero will be powerful.If hero goes asgard and make level 45 you will able to make your party full.By using life balance and mana balance your party will be much powerful.Healing wind then give max output to the party.Female light elf in Hamlin is much powerful in druidism and able to make large health and mana potions quickly.For having money leave your 2 or 3 party members killing RoF all the time and sell lots of rings.I found that female light elf found in Hamlin is most powerfull char in SP.She is able to quickly kill everyone alone.So sad that merchant sold her in cheap.
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Post by Kilarin on Jul 3, 2005 0:51:44 GMT -5
Yeah, but I prefer to avoid ROF completely this adventure. He always felt a bit like cheating to me, and since I now know the secret to getting the sailing skill at level 45, I don't NEED him. Also, uhm, OOPS. The bandits are on the way to the LIGHT elves, not the dark elves. No WONDER they were so hard to fight. (I STILL killed three or four of them) It's obviously been a long time since I played LOH, I got turned around. Now that I'm going the right direction, things are a bit easier. Well, relatively speaking. Instead of fighting creatures that can kill me with one hit, I'm fighting creatures that require 2 or 3 blows to down me. And there are gobses and gobses of them!!!!! So yeah, I'm sneaking past quite a few. Can't sneak past them all though, I need some cash. And if I can isolate one of those forest trolls, I'll probably try for a ring (not to mention a pricey club). But I just REALLY need to do some trading with the goblins and the dark elves. I have GOT to have some more spells. Some high powered explosives could certainly come in handy.
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Post by Kilarin on Jul 5, 2005 7:40:24 GMT -5
Well, working my way through to the incubalos forest got a lot easier once T'vrill tipped over to 5th level CM. That extra second duration on Acid Gas made a big difference, and now she can summon a Jade Gargoyle! Suddenly enemies that had been VERY difficult became much more manageable. I could even take on multiple foes at once occasionally. Although, once I HIT the incubalos forest, the zombie wolves were a challenge. They have a LOT of hit points, and they tend to come in packs. I took down the bridge troll with the standard "Round and Round the Rugged Rock the Ragged Rascal Ran" tactic. Inside Tir'Malani I attempted to take ONLY T'Vril down to the necromancer. But the shards were proving too difficult to deal with. On hard mode, they have 150 some odd hit points and do an unbelievable amount of damage. No way to dodge either. So I ended up sneaking my hero down too her so that they could run the gauntlet together. That way if one got hit, the other could heal them. Ah, but what a difference a few spells make! On the way BACK from the Necromancer, I cleared ever one of those shards from the path. Due to poor planning T'vril's new minion has only a torch as a weapon, but his abilities to hit aren't what's needed. It's the ability to run him in front and let him take the first hit that matters. Then T'Vril can shatter the shard with a single soul lance (how I LOVE that spell!) and my hero can heal both of them. I even stopped and killed most of the royal guard. Soul Lance can be fired from just outside of the guards visual range. That means you can fire it, and be halfway across the bridge before the slow soul lance impacts the guard. I picked up an extra two suits of Shadow leather this way. Now my Minion has a nice suit of armor. Now it's time to build up a BIG collection of troll clubs. I need to go back into Tir'Malani with enough loot to purchase Swiftness Of The Dead and a second copy of soul lance. Then with TWO soul lances, I think it will be time to go hunting swamp trolls. Hard mode LOH is an incredibly fun challenge!
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Hacknshoot
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I am no person but myself, no matter what anyone says!
Posts: 52
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Post by Hacknshoot on Jul 5, 2005 9:22:26 GMT -5
Dang... you actually beat the Bridge Troll on your way out? I tried to kill it, but I was too weak and got killed like that. And that was on easy... *is embarassed greatly*
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Post by Kilarin on Jul 5, 2005 10:40:48 GMT -5
Hacknshoot: I beat it on my way IN. Don't feel embarrassed. This is my third time through, I've got a bit of an advantage over you. All you need to beat the bridge troll is to use a tactic I call "Round and Round the Rugged Rock the Ragged Rascal Ran" First, pick one member of your party to be the "attacker", set them on "hold ground" and "attack freely". The other member is the "target", set them on "move freely". Next make certain you have an open area without any enemies nearby except for one you want to kill. Now send your target to just within visual range of the enemy. The enemy will lock on to the target and start chasing them. Now run the target in big circles round and round the attacker. The enemy will keep chasing the target and the attacker can keep pounding on the enemy until they die. You have to watch out for three things while using this tactic: 1: At a certain point early in the combat the enemy will often decide to retreat. This can cause them to "lose lock" on your target and start hitting your attacker. This isn't the end of the world, you can just reverse their roles, BUT, to save yourself that problem, watch for that retreat and follow quickly with an attack from the target, that will keep the enemy chasing them. The enemy doesn't usually try to retreat more than once, and often not even then. 2: ESPECIALLY in the incubalos forest, there is ground that looks empty, but actually has an old log or something on it. When you are keeping your target running, if you click on one of these spots, your target will simply stop. This is NOT GOOD when a big troll is right behind them. So watch closely where you are clicking and make certain your target really moves. 3: Be careful not to wander close enough to any new enemies to draw them into the fight. This tactic doesn't work if enemies are chasing BOTH your attacker and your target. Once you get this down at the basic level, you can try some advanced techniques. A: Let your target attack, run, attack, run, instead of just running. B: Use the tactic with multiple enemies chasing the target. C: Use the tactic on enemies with missile weapons. One of the fun things about LOH is learning how to outsmart enemies who are MUCH more powerful than you. Fun and VERY satisfying when you make it work. And I'm not all that good at it. if you want to read about some SKILLEd people, check out the <"Nekid Fury Run"> over on SiegeNetwork. I never DID manage to win at that and it wasn't for lack of trying. Perhaps I'll give it another go after this time through LOH. Good luck! Edit: Unfortunantly, all the nekid fury run graphics have been removed from the SiegeNetwork thread, that is too bad, Xaa had some REALLY funny ones. I hope someone somewhere saved them.
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Post by NARAYAN on Jul 5, 2005 10:40:50 GMT -5
Oh ,I think you will need lots of practice in LoH.Once you know the gamesecrets the game will become fun lots of fun.The LoH differs in lots of points from orignal DS.Try everything and get them 1st.Like you need to learn leather crafting before leaving Black Forest.
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Hacknshoot
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I am no person but myself, no matter what anyone says!
Posts: 52
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Post by Hacknshoot on Jul 5, 2005 12:17:15 GMT -5
I had to sneak by him after leaving Tir'Malani because I was still too weak. After I hit like level 30 with my main guy, I got revenge. Let's say that now, one spell from my main guy would be big-time overkill...
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Post by Kilarin on Jul 6, 2005 0:33:58 GMT -5
You don't HAVE to be high level to take out big things in LOH. You just have to be ready to "Run away! Run away!", over and over and over... In the aboved pieced together image you will note that T'Vril is only 9th Combat Mage and 2nd ranged (she JUST went 9th during this combat). And the hero (Dalfgan) is 9th Nature Mage and 1st Combat mage. The Handmaiden of Lactri is 1715 hit points and has the worse case of halitosis I have ever encountered! She is down to only 358hp in the above picture because of a LOT of "shoot two long distance soul lances and RUN" work. And just a little bit later we have a EX handmaiden. That took a LONG time, but it was fun! Time to go hunting swamp trolls. I STILL don't have enough cash to purchase Swiftness Of The Dead.
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Post by NARAYAN on Jul 6, 2005 6:36:21 GMT -5
Few days before once I play LoH in easy mode for some reasons.I forgot the use of clock of shadows in front of assasin when 1st meet.A strange thing happens.My char and T'Vril kills the assasin and assasin drops 1493 gold.The gold amount is high for starting players and this makes game too easy.On the top of ladders goblin robot dies easily and then I quit.I have decided not to play Hyperborea in easy mode not even for experiments.I am lacking veteran and elite mods for LoH.You will get the same in future if you will practice hard on all of DS maps honestly without using extra mods.
Try to purchase sailing spell by using rat people not the SoD spell and then you are able to purchase everything.The rings and amulets in the fury cave are much costly and then you can purchase everything you want.Since you have killed Lactri,Rat people are not far away.
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Post by Kilarin on Jul 6, 2005 7:47:12 GMT -5
NARAYAN: Sorry for the confusion! That wasn't Lactri, that was "The Handmaiden of Lactri", the big spider hiding right behind the royal guards in Tir-Malani. I'm not ready to take on Lactri yet, or even the endless stairs. Heck, my hero the Nature Mage is still relying on Zap. NARAYAN: Yeah, but I'm trying to avoid the rapid leveling thing. I know I could attack the dragons or cave trolls with hit and run tactics and go up to 45th level in a few minutes, but then most of the rest of the game wouldn't be a challenge. And the challenge is what I am enjoying. I want to experience fighting my way through the bandits as a complete nightmare. I want to be SCARED of the elemental witches. I want to have to work hard at each combat just the way I did with the Handmaid. And so, I've set myself the personal rule of not attacking anything I can't kill. This is a PERSONAL rule, I'm not saying it's BAD for anyone else to use that tactic, just that it doesn't fit with what I'M playing LOH for this time. I want to experience all of LOH again, experience it as a challenge and a story, and I can't really do that if I rapidly jump up to 45th level before I've even gotten Darlar's first quest. *IF* I ever finished learning how to mod, changing the xp system in DS would be one of my major goals. (And that ain't easy from what I've heard) My ideal would be a system where each monster is worth a set amount of experience. When the monster dies, that experience is distributed to the attacking party. 50% of the experience would be distributed evenly, the other 50% would be distributed according to a "participation pool". The "participation pool" would determine how active each player had been in the last few minutes. Whenever a player attacks, has been attacked, cast buffs, heals, etc, a number is added to their "participation pool". Those values would last for a few minutes, so that the "participation pool" represents how active they have been recently. Something you did 10 minutes ago doesn't count. Whenever a monster dies, half of the experience is distributed according to that pool. The bigger your participation number as compared to the rest of the party, the bigger your cut. BUT, that would be a MAJOR change to the DS system, and I haven't gotten simple modifications to npc templates down yet, so don't be expecting any mods coming from ME anytime soon.
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Hacknshoot
Full Member
I am no person but myself, no matter what anyone says!
Posts: 52
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Post by Hacknshoot on Jul 6, 2005 9:20:00 GMT -5
Ok, you wanna see fast leveling? Let me get a couple of screenshots of my characters stats, put them in a battle, and get some more after I'm done resurrecting. Ok, forget that one. Now that I'm that high on my main guy, he doesn't get CM levels that easily anymore.
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