|
|
Post by NARAYAN on Mar 11, 2006 13:04:44 GMT -5
I have played this game long before and still today I am unable to give answers to one of my friend.  I have considered Hyperborea is having 4 types of creatures 1. Good - Valkayrie,Light elf,Humans ,Dwarfs etc... 2. Evil - Dark Elf,Hyperborean,goblins etc... 3. Enemy to all - All general Enemies like dragons,lactri,fury etc.. 4. Neutral/friend to all - Few shopkeepers and NPC. Now how can I explain why guards of Tir'Asleen kills him with bandits if bandits are the enemy of light elf.Although the bandits have stolen Heart bow from CORWYN ,light elf guards are not intrested in fighting with bandits.They works as ally against dark elf team. Valkayrie is one of the true enemies of dark elfs,hyperborean but BRUNHILDE is talking friendly and also brings rainbow bidge for them. My friend wants me to guess that my friends team of dark characters will be able to buy "Sailing Spell" from Disparillion or not after level 120(None of them have passed level 80 now).The players are divided into two groups ,one is good another is evil.They are believing in that the game should be balanced by both sides "Good" and "Evil". Please help me answering this. |
|
|
|
Post by Xaa on Mar 13, 2006 17:37:18 GMT -5
The game is not intended to be balanced good-versus-evil, nature-versus-combat, fighter-archer-spellchucker, or any other aspect you care to name. Specific combinations of race, gender and ability (fighter-archer-nature mage-combat mage) are INTENTIONALLY HARDER to play, while others are INTENTIONALLY EASIER. This allows the player to determine just how hard they want things to be for themselves - some character combinations have it easy, while others are a flat-out b*tch. This is explained in the readme file.
|
|
|
|
Post by taltamir on Jun 21, 2006 20:40:58 GMT -5
not to mention that in LoH individuals have realistic views on other races.
There is no "Good" and "Evil" races. There are cultures that are predomenently a certain way (which might be considered evil by you), and there are the perceptions that various cultures have of each other. Each group views certain other groups as enemies, sometimes because of unbased predigices and sometimes because of intercultural hostility. There are even a few exceptions; NPCs who have a viewpoint that differs from the general concensus of their race for some reason or another.
LoH is an exceptionally rich plot based game, don't expect a good/evil hack and slash orgy.
|
|
|
|
Post by NARAYAN on Jun 21, 2006 22:06:19 GMT -5
If some is using life leech(necromancy spell) or something like that I am understanding them as evil powers and if someone is foraging,alchemy (Drudism) or like spells I considered them as good powers and so they are diffrentiated.
These are complementary like light and darkness,life and death,good and evil.
The the spell sold by merchant in Tir'Maleen and compare with Tir'Asleen merchant.This is assumption taken by me.You can assume different things.
|
|
|
|
Post by Xaa on Jun 22, 2006 8:14:41 GMT -5
Well, the actual divisions in the game aren't "good" versus "evil", they're really "dark" versus "light." Most "dark" characters are evil, yes, just as most "light" characters are good. But, there are exceptions. Such as your companion, T'Vril.  T'Vril has an NIS outside Tir Asleen which explains the situation better, and there's a lorebook you can find (if you know where to look) that gives an explanation as to where the "dark" and "light" elves came from. Other stories found in books and related by characters in the game also explain the division between the Asgardians and the Hyperboreans, the Goblins and the Dwarves, etc, etc. All of it is "light/dark" divisions - but, not necessarily "good/evil." In LoH, Light/Dark is basically the situation and body you are born with, and cannot change. Good and evil are more personal choices you make yourself. |
|
|
|
Post by taltamir on Jun 23, 2006 3:13:27 GMT -5
oh, those books were wonderful... although I don't recall finding the dwarves goblins one... mmm. I guess there is something for me to look into |
|
|
|
Post by NARAYAN on Jun 23, 2006 12:13:00 GMT -5
Ok I can again tell my thought in other words.A lion or tiger is killing other animals for his survival.But think about a lion who is killing other lion for food.It must be called evil desires.Think about a situation where in an island peoples are killing other peoples for the survival.In my thought it is evil.
Although the T'Vril seems to be good char but see her powers like life leech life,summon skeletons,burn body,soul destruction etc.I mean all necromancy spells are evil powers except SoD.Similarly druidism spells helps each other so they are powers of good.In a single char both can happen.As we can see in almost all people some habbits are good and some are bad.But people are known by the majority of them.In that manor T'Vril can be said as good char but not majority of darkelfs are good.
|
|
|
|
Post by Kilarin on Jun 23, 2006 13:09:50 GMT -5
NARAYAN:
Ok, I'm not certain I understand the distinction you are making here.
Are you drawing a distinction based on results or source? It SOUNDS like you are drawing your line between good and evil spells based on the spells results. If a spells purpose is to cause damage, it is evil.
But by that rule, ZAP, a nature spell used by Druid's, would now be evil. As well as a bunch of others.
The other possibility is that you are drawing a line based on source. I'm very uncomfortable with necromancy, the idea being that the very SOURCE of that power is evil. After some time in hyperboria I decided that the magic wasn't really working that way in this story. Necromancy is a type of magic that works with life, just in a different way than Druidical magic does. I think LOH Necromancy is VERY easy to use for evil, but it is not INNATELY evil.
And that's why I draw my line between good and evil magic based upon the use it is put to. It makes no difference if you kill someone using Leech Life or Zap, the only important point is whether you were justified in killing that person or not.
|
|
|
|
Post by NARAYAN on Jun 23, 2006 13:58:52 GMT -5
I am making a line between live and dead.
If anyone is creating spell by using nature ,I have counted them as good but if someone is experimenting with dead that is evil.
Think someone killed by shooting and someone killed by drinking the blood of him.Both are different murder case.Now see darkelfs are having opportunity to develop their tech by other means but they have taken the way of experimenting on dead.
Compare a soldier fighting for his nation and killing the enemies.He never counted as evil.But if someone is killing people for drinking their blood or stealing his body parts is very bad and can be said as evil.
Have you ever like the eating of horsemeat in mageworld.Is it feels tasty for you when you are playing the char pooka.
|
|
|
|
Post by Xaa on Jun 23, 2006 17:42:48 GMT -5
I reiterate: The divisions in LoH aren't "good/evil", they're "light/dark." Good and evil are moral choices made by people. Light and Dark orientations are simply the way things are. Nature Magic in LoH is neither good nor evil, it's "light." Necromancy in LoH is neither good nor evil, it's "dark." It is not the tool which is evil, but the use to which it is put. A baseball bat can be used to play a game, or kill a man. One is "good", the other is "evil." But the baseball bat is neither good nor evil, it's just a baseball bat. |
|
|
|
Post by Kilarin on Jun 23, 2006 18:14:46 GMT -5
NARAYAN: I have to agree and disagree. Yes, I refused to use most of the necromantic spells my first time through LOH simply because I objected to the entire "type" of magic. To my mind, "Necromancy" brings up images of making deals with the devil and enslaving the spirits of the dead as zombies. But, after having had some experience with LOH, I decided that Necromancy in LOH didn't seem to work on that premise. It was more a matter of positive vs negative life. (Light and Dark as Xaa says). Leech Life draws life energy away from the victim. Zap pelts an enemy with an excess of energy, resulting in death. The results are the same either way, to eliminate the life of the enemy. Now, summoning undead, I agree with you. I think that is pretty much inherently an evil act. I DID make an exception for the minion, excusing that to myself by saying that He wasn't really undead. I wasn't imprisoning some poor dead soul and forcing them to serve me. It was just a magical construct made out of bones. But really, when you get down to the brass tacks, Crafting bottle gnomes is presumably on the "light" side of things and I find them MUCH more disturbing than anything on the Necromantic Spell list. Bottled fairies I could excuse since they seem to simply be animals. But the gnomes are clearly sentient, and locking them into a bottle always bothered me. So yes, there are some spells who's very nature I find to be evil, other spells that I am not certain about. BUT, the vast majority I view to be neutral, they are only "good" or "evil" depending on what you use them for. And in that regard, I don't see Leech Life as being any different that Zap. The result either way is a dead body. Your justification for killing is what makes the act good or evil. Xaa: All depends on who the man was. I'm from Texas where "He needed Killin" is still a valid defense in a murder trial. |
|
|
|
Post by NARAYAN on Jun 24, 2006 12:50:51 GMT -5
I have disbanded Gnome once and after few moments I can see that Gnome is still following the caster just like pets.If anyone is releasing a good pet he can see that most of pets still be with him.So your char brings a bottle having the size of Gnome and Gnome is saved in that bottle and Gnome keeps the important spells of his boss.Having pets is not evil act if pet is happy with you.Most people are doing same thing with birds also.
Long time before when I was playing MW for the first time.The most evil act of black king, what I feels is forcing the black knights to kill white knights for food.I can't imagine that a knight will eat horsemeat as tasty food.Have you seen their kitchens.
This thread was started long ago just because someone's question that why Tir'Asleen guards acts as ally of bandits when killing a darkelf.He asked me that why Tir'Asleen guards are not intrested in fighting with bandits.But this thread moved in different way.
|
|
|
|
Post by Xaa on Jun 24, 2006 23:17:18 GMT -5
Well...
Ummm...
Because when your dark elf shows up, all the guards have their alignment changed in skrit to AA_EVIL so they'll attack. In LoH, all the PC's start off as AA_GOOD, and I made several skrits to flip-flop alignments so various characters would get attacked when they came withing sighting distance of NPC's who are hostile to them. This was necessary, because the adventure revolves around the main character being a human (light race) and the supporting character being a dark elf (dark race). There needed to be some mechanism that would allow T'Vril to interact with the dark elves without problems, yet also allow the human character to get attacked - and vice-versa, when visiting the light races. As a result, I came up with the skrit that flips NPC alignments. It wasn't a perfect solution, but it worked, and it helped establish some of the basic limits in the game.
For characters who just absolutely MUST deal with NPC's who hate them, try clicking on the NPC and talking to them from the other side of a wall, where the NPC can't see you. Using this trick in combination with some careful use of the Stealth skill, it is possible to train any "light" character in necromancy, and any "dark" character in druidism. Not EASY, no, but possible.
|
|
gfb
Full Member
Posts: 76
|
Post by gfb on Jun 25, 2006 0:56:42 GMT -5
To my mind, "Necromancy" brings up images of making deals with the devil and enslaving the spirits of the dead as zombies.  Arise ye spirits of vengance! Your souls have been trapped in the Caves of Hate for too long! Arise and do battle again! Release your righteous fury upon the cave trolls and, finally, on the God of Hate himself! I call upon thee! For vengance... and for justice! When the battle is ended and the world is rid of the God of Hate, your souls will rest forever in the halls of the victorious. |
|
|
|
Post by Kilarin on Jun 25, 2006 8:20:40 GMT -5
GOOD one! Ha! I stand corrected! |
|
T'Vril has an NIS outside Tir Asleen which explains the situation better, and there's a lorebook you can find (if you know where to look) that gives an explanation as to where the "dark" and "light" elves came from. Other stories found in books and related by characters in the game also explain the division between the Asgardians and the Hyperboreans, the Goblins and the Dwarves, etc, etc. All of it is "light/dark" divisions - but, not necessarily "good/evil." In LoH, Light/Dark is basically the situation and body you are born with, and cannot change. Good and evil are more personal choices you make yourself.
